A Conversation with C. G. Jung

Jim: Carl, did you know that I am teaching a course at Agnes Scott College on your old friend Trickster?

Carl: As it happens, I did not.

Jim: Well, it's true. To be accurate, the course is on trickster themes in classical literature. We've spent the last couple of weeks becoming familiar with interpretations of Trickster by several people, including your eminence.

Carl: I'm flattered. And what do you and your students think of my theory of archetypes? Surely you agree that Trickster is simply a manifestation of the Shadow archetype, that he is (if I may quote myself) the "epitome of all the inferior traits of character in people"?

Jim: I confess that I am intrigued with your approach, Herr Jung. For my part, I know that I have been overtaken, at one time or another in my life, by trickster-like impulses and behaviors. For example, when I was in college, I was walking with a group of my roommates and friends. We were approaching a chain hanging low across the road, blocking cars from entering the campus on that street. As my friends were about to step over the chain, some mischievous, devilish impulse caused me to lift the chain with my foot. Two of them tripped over the chain, and I immediately felt awful. Was my Trickster-Shadow, the one that we all have inside of us, asserting itself?

Carl: Yes, well, perhaps you should make an appointment at my office, Jim, and we should, er, discuss this?

Jim: Maybe another time. But to get back to theories about the trickster: after hearing all my students report, I must say that I cannot call myself a Jungian.

Carl: Surely you are joking! It cannot be that any of these other theories has the explanatory power . . . the genius . . . the simple yet profound insight of my extraordinary theory of psychic archetypes! It was good enough for Paul Radin, but it's not good enough for you, eh?

Jim: Hold on there, Carl. Don't get too excited. It's just that there are some other good ideas out there.

Carl: Preposterous! Surely you are not about to say that you are a Freudian!

Jim: No, I'm not. But what about this? You say that everyone everywhere, regardless of his or her social and cultural circumstances, has this same innate Shadow figure in his or her psyche. And that Trickster is an objectification of the inner psychic disposition. We tell and listen to stories featuring Trickster because we want to hold the earlier low intellectual and moral level before the eyes of the more highly developed individual. Right?

Carl: Precisely.

Jim: Well, what bothers me is that with your approach, we have to pass over and explain away so much. There's a guy named Grottanelli, for example, who has analyzed a Roman trickster story in Phaedrus. He points out that this trickster figure illustrates the role that daring can play in a society. Without at least one person who is willing to take risks, we stagnate, we lose the chance to grow and maybe even to save ourselves. 

Carl: Hmmm.

Jim: And a woman named Doueihi points out that in your approach to the myths about Trickster, we treat discourse -- a particular text, specific words arranged in a particular way -- as mere story, that is, just a plain old set of events. We lose the nuance and particularity of a single instance of storytelling. We don't see the way that the discourse raises questions and doubts, the way it plays with language to make the reader aware of just how ambiguous, open-ended, and indeterminate these tales really are. Doueihi says that a Trickster discourse is one that celebrates creativity, the endless possibilities of finding meanings in life.

Carl: Bah!

Jim: There's more. Other people focus on Trickster as a boundary-crosser, whose transgressions (far from being merely evil) can provide a society with the means to recognize those boundaries, maybe alter them, and at a minimum feel less burdened by them. So, with these and other approaches, instead of seeing this figure as merely "ridiculous," as you put it, we have a chance to see other aspects of Trickster. Positive aspects.

Carl: Well, yes, even I have said that Trickster contains the seeds of conversion into his opposite. That Trickster is the forerunner of the Savior.

Jim: I remember that. That's how you ended your essay on Trickster. I wonder if you ended your essay where you might have started it?

Carl: You may be right. Hmmm, the only one who dares, eh? Discourse that celebrates creativity and meaningfulness, you say? Boundary-crossing that revitalizes a society? Very interesting! Might I attend this class of yours at Agnes Scott College? I'd love to meet your students!

Jim: Sorry, Carl, there's something I forgot to mention about this particular college...

 --Abbot